[identity profile] delight-in.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] delight_in_wt
Four or five centuries ago, Lalastria was a prosperous city on Vrix. That's the same branch as Niestria, the city my mother came from. I heard Lalastria's story from a skyship first mate once when we were flying down for a visit.

Vrix had a large population of Taptet who'd been enslaved by Blee before the Primes came to colonize Vrix. Taptet are very short humanoids with hooved feet and cervine features. Blee are four-legged canines with four arms on their backs. Blee can be very dangerous people but Taptet are pretty weak both in terms of physique and magical power. Some Taptet have a gift for potion-making but the potions are so unpredictable in effect that they rarely use them.

When the Primes came, they killed or drove most all of the Blee off to the Verticals. The Taptet slaves didn't fight on behalf of their masters and so the Primes took lots of Taptets captive. They argued about what to do with them a lot. Some Primes wanted to use the Taptet as slave labor themselves, some of them wanted to drive the Taptet off to the Verticals like the Mewellicaps, or at least force them way outwards into territory the Primes weren't planning to settle yet. A few even thought they should give the Taptet small pockets of land and let the nonprimes live there in peaceful villages of their own.

There was so much dissension over it that the colonists split into two groups. One group left to found Niestria, and they didn't permit any nonprime slaves or settlements within their Mene. The other group was Lalastria, which kept the Taptet as slaves in the Mene. They still weren't allowed within city walls because it takes a while to work up to that kind of madness, I guess.

They'd been keeping and breeding Taptet as slaves for many decades before they started talking about allowing them in the city. Taptet made pretty good slaves, apparently. They weren't great at hard labor like plowing or digging or suchlike since they were so weak. But they were meek and obedient and smart enough to take direction. Lots of Primes kept some as servants and some craftsmen in the Mene used them to do apprentice-level work. Slavers really wanted to sell them to cityfolk, and country nobles didn't like having to leave their serving-slaves outside the city and basically have to hire a whole different servant set for the city. They pressured the city to revise the laws against doorwaying to make an exception just for Taptet slaves. "They're mild and sapient and harmless. It's not like loosing a wild Krango or bringing in a rebellious Cyarr or a free monster," they said. "There's no danger in these little folk who were bred and born to be slaves."

Some people thought it was a bad idea and warned that even the little Taptet were not to be trusted. They pointed to potion-fueled Taptet rebellions in other city-states as an example of the risks. "But these are domesticated Taptet. They've been slaves for generation upon generation, slaves to the Blee before we came. They have no culture of their own and they are banned from potion-craft. If any of them had ever had the talent for the craft, they've surely lost it by now. We have them under control."

The slaveholders got their way eventually. Taptet slaves were allowed to pass through the city walls. Some people were still concerned about the dangers monsters posed inside the city though, so there were very strict curbs to control their behavior. To prove that their Taptet slaves were completely under their control, treatment of the slaves got increasingly more strict. The Taptet were not allowed to marry or to choose their own mates. Their children were usually taken from them (often to be raised in creches run by other Taptet slaves) to ensure that no family bonds formed. Any disobedience against their masters, even unintentional, was met with harsh punishment. Any transgression against Prime law by a Taptet was a capital crime.

Despite their high use of slave labor, the standard of living for Lalastrian Primes lagged behind that of neighboring Niestria. Some Primes speculated that there was a secret movement among the Taptet to sabotage the Lalastrian economy. Even more draconian measures to prevent Taptet conspiracies were implemented: mandatory shift rotations and bi-annual swaps of individual slaves to break up any slave group that might be colluding to cause harm to their masters.

In the end, the worst the Primes could do was not enough to save Lalastria. As their economy worsened tax revenue fell. The nobles raised the levies and compliance fell. Guards went months without pay and grew increasingly corrupt as they took bribes to keep themselves fed. Enforcement of all laws became erratic. That's probably how the Taptet rebellion managed to get organized despite everything put into place to stop them. Either the slaves did have alchemists among them or they had allies among free Taptet elsewhere on the branch who smuggled potions of fire breath and berserker strength and iron skin to them. On one fateful night, it seems that every slave in the city or Mene drank one or more of these potions. Dozens, maybe hundreds, of Taptet died from dangerous side effects of their own brewing. But the rest devastated the city, burning much of it to the ground and killing or driving off everyPrime.

Then the Taptet took charge of what remained of Lalastria, including her city walls.

When Niestria's adventurers came to the aid of Lalastrian refugees, they found the nonprime ex-slaves holed up behind Lalastria's walls. There was simply no way short of Holocaust weaponry to get the Taptet out. The Taptet negotiated a truce with Niestria in time. The nonprimes ruled Lalastria for over a century. They were only driven out when the city walls finally failed due to age because the Taptet had no enchanters capable of repairing or maintaining them.

And that is why sensible Primes make doorwaying a capital crime! No exceptions. I like lots of nonprimes just fine and they're good people but they don't belong in cities!

Date: 2010-10-06 04:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] terrycloth.livejournal.com
So they let them *live* in the cities and build up a population, and then abused them until they rebelled. That's... a kind of careful. I guess.

Is this *literally* the textbook example of how not to treat taptet?
Edited Date: 2010-10-06 04:19 pm (UTC)

Date: 2010-10-06 05:48 pm (UTC)
zeeth_kyrah: A glowing white and blue anthropomorphic horse stands before a pink and blue sky. (Default)
From: [personal profile] zeeth_kyrah
I dunno, I would have felt safer if the Taptet were living free and peacefully in their own villages and trading with the city instead of being slaves. No matter how well you treat them, a slave is still enslaved, and many will fight because of that alone.

Date: 2010-10-06 05:59 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] terrycloth.livejournal.com
I think the cases I heard of where letting non-primes inside the cities worked, they were let in to trade but maybe weren't allowed to live there? At least they didn't typically live there.

Of course, I suspect part of it was wherriweffles insisting up and down that they're prime and the guards not wanting to have to kill them just for that.

Date: 2010-10-06 06:27 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tuftears.livejournal.com
Y'know I wonder why the nonprimes don't just found cities of their own? Is it because none of them are strong enough enchanters to be able to make city walls?

Date: 2010-10-06 07:03 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gavinfox.livejournal.com
From what I've read, nonprimes often have very powerful but very specialized magic. It requires the massive amount of versatility of Prime magic to create and maintain city walls.

Date: 2010-10-06 07:18 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tuftears.livejournal.com
Fair enough!

Date: 2010-10-17 03:59 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sythyry.livejournal.com
They do. I've visited several nonprime cities. But we don't let them have cities in prime lands, when we can help it and usually we can.

Date: 2010-10-17 04:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tuftears.livejournal.com
Must have been an interesting visit!

Date: 2010-10-17 04:08 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sythyry.livejournal.com
Pretty much so!

http://sythyry.dreamwidth.org/189699.html

Date: 2010-10-17 04:15 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tuftears.livejournal.com
Oh yes! Travels with Vae are so broadening. ^_^

Date: 2010-10-06 07:10 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gavinfox.livejournal.com
To me, it seems that this is more a story on the immorality of excessive greed, paranoia, the sin of enslaving of sentient creatures, and the folly of believing they could control the dreams and aspirations of others. It doesn't seem to be a perfect example of doorwaying laws being wrong per se.

Date: 2010-10-06 07:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gavinfox.livejournal.com
Here's a question -- can you think of an example of one set of PRIMES doing something similar to another set of PRIMES (ie, enslaving folk that come from a different city, and oppressing them because they come from a particular city / branch, and having them live oppressed in their city), and it blowing up in a similar fashion?

Date: 2010-10-06 07:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gavinfox.livejournal.com
Here's a question -- if it DID happen, wouldn't it likely blow up in a similar way that the Taptet story did? Therefore, the issue at hand is not 'doorwaying', it's 'proper treatment of sentient folk (like Primes and Taptet) that do not innately have a built in desire to cause havoc.'

Date: 2010-10-06 07:41 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gavinfox.livejournal.com
Really? I thought Taptet were one of the exceptions that are harmless and don't wish to actively cause havoc, and don't actually gain anything from doing so, and it's just mistreatment of them that would encourage them to do so?

Their schtick is really the potion thing, right? Potions which do not have any innate motivation to cause primes harm?

Date: 2010-10-06 07:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gavinfox.livejournal.com
I mean they don't need to kill or harm primes to make potions, or make more powerful potions, and they don't have a weird desire to create potions specifically to cause primes harm, and the potions don't instill them with a weird desire to cause primes harm, or any weird systems like that? And they have no compulsions of note to cause primes harm in general?

Date: 2010-10-06 09:53 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gavinfox.livejournal.com
Maybe they are supposed to be a moral puzzle, like the way Terry described? They seem really meek and disarming and stuff, but they have *normal person* wants and needs, like any prime would -- they want to be treated with respect and dignity, despite their 'obvious' meekness, and are very capable of a stealth uprising if they aren't treated with dignity? So the trick is to treat them well in the first place, and protect and respect them, and they would be perfectly safe to allow in a Prime city, if you did that.

Date: 2010-10-06 11:34 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gavinfox.livejournal.com
Ahhh! Now you are making some sense! "These creatures have simple wants and needs, just like any prime, but because we as Prime culture cannot overcome our own temptations and prejudices, it is safest for us if we do not let them in our cities. Maybe one day a prime city will be enlightened enough to let them in their cities without risking destruction at the hands of rightfully vengeful Taptets."

Date: 2010-10-06 07:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] terrycloth.livejournal.com
Taptet are designed to cause havoc by encouraging people to enslave them, and then going berzerk. They have an attitude that screams 'exploit me!' and a compulsion to be free.

You can defeat their trap by not enslaving them (and you can fall prey to their trap even if you're a monster), but they aren't an *exception* exactly.

Date: 2010-10-06 07:59 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gavinfox.livejournal.com
...I have no idea how sarcastic you are or are not being. But regardless, that was a great post, and an interesting way of putting things!

Date: 2010-10-06 09:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gavinfox.livejournal.com
Yea, I actually like this way of putting things... if you act like decent folk, they are friendly, and they are the type (small! cute! shy! subservient!) that it's natural to want to dominate if you aren't a decent sort of person?

Date: 2010-10-06 07:14 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gavinfox.livejournal.com
Er, it doesn't seem to be a perfect example of the idea that doorwaying laws as they exist being the only way to do things, and changing doorwaying laws to be more permissible in any situation whatsoever being unthinkable.

Date: 2010-10-06 07:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gavinfox.livejournal.com
1.) Let the Taptet in to TRADE and WORK as paid laborers. Not slaves.
2.) Do not enslave the Taptet. Do not seek to domesticate them. Trade with them, give them a fair price for their labor and goods, let them feel needed and useful and valued
3.) Encourage economic policies not based on slavery, but instead outreach and trade
4.) Make sure protection of the law goes both ways -- it should be illegal to harm or harass a Taptet with a daypass in the city, just like it's illegal to harm or harass a prime.
5.) If you do need more control and observation, make them have to pay reasonable fees for a daypass that includes an armed handler to follow them around as they go about their business, both to make sure they don't do anything untoward, and protect them FROM harassment.

Date: 2010-10-06 07:34 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gavinfox.livejournal.com
Consider this -- make sure they have no motivation to sabotage things, and that, even if they are selfish and want things in their best interest, it's really in their best interest to NOT sabotage things, because being able to trade and work gets them access to lots of money, goods, services, and safety, that they wouldn't otherwise have.

Date: 2010-10-06 07:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] terrycloth.livejournal.com
Why are Gormorror allowed in cities, though? They're dangerous violent thieving raiders with weird mental compulsions that make them act irrationally as a matter of honor.

Or Zi Ri? Did you hear about the city that let a zi ri inside and they planted a werid magical tuber under the city guard building and it grew into a giant prime-eating plant and killed EVERYONE and the city had to be abandoned?

Date: 2010-10-06 09:55 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gavinfox.livejournal.com
And how do you know that Taptets aren't 'exceptions' as well?

Date: 2010-10-06 10:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] terrycloth.livejournal.com
I'm not talking about the taptet here (or any monster I know of), but wouldn't it be an interesting trap if the gods made a monster that it was *only* safe to keep in cities?

Like, imagine a blossomary-like creature that reproduced with a huge cloud of spores whenever it died and had harvestable healing fruit. The only way to keep them from infesting the countryside and making all the monsters heal as much as adventurers would be to capture all the ones you could find and keep them inside your city.

... or else burn out the whole countryside with fire. I guess that could work too.

Date: 2010-10-17 04:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sythyry.livejournal.com
For the record: Yylhauntra did not personally put that tuber in Pelcour (though zie would have done had the plans gone that way). Also, without the Hausdorff Militia's erronious attempt to deal with it the wrong way, it wouldn't have slaughtered the city. Perhaps the tuber-planting was doorwaying, though history mostly judges it as a different form of genocide.

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